Good lord. How many posts do I have to make about my problems with friends who want more? I know, I know. It’s me. Obviously, it’s me. I get that it’s me; I just don’t get why it’s me.
If you read this blog, or even the last post, you can see that I don’t do subtle. At best, I’m typically accused of being blunt. At worst, rude. I flat out admitted to a guy in high school that I had a huge crush on him. Knowing full well he didn’t feel the same.*
Ok, I’ll liven up this blog post with some more proof of my incredible bluntness with guys. In high school, I got high and told a guy I fell in love with him at first sight. In college, while drunk, I got the sense that a new guy in my circle of friends was interested in me. He’s giving me a back rub, and I’m thinking, no way do I come back to college and on my first night make out with someone. There’s an awkward silence. Then I realized I just said that out loud. After college, I was out with a guy who was giving me a ton of mixed signals. So I told him that my mother was already picking out china patterns for us. Another awkward silence when he didn’t laugh at my joke. Hanging out at a friend’s apartment with his hot out of town guest—“Is it too soon to ask you to sit on my feet?” Yeah. It wasn’t. Most recently, I guy I liked at a friend’s birthday drove me home and when we got there I panicked about asking for contact information. So I kissed him. Then asked.
So recently, when a guy read me a laundry list of things I had done that he took as signals I was interested, I was astounded that he had missed the obvious. Namely, I had never flirted with him. I had never inadvertently touched him. I had never sat next to him when there was room to sit farther away. I told another friend to stop trying to kiss me. He didn’t and accused me of playing games. Playing games? Mixed signals? How could I strike anyone who knows me as someone who doesn’t go after what she wants? I don’t get it. But let me make it clear. If I wanted you, you would know it. And likely at some cost to my personal dignity if history is anything to go by.
* In case you’re interested, ten years later when I show up to my high school reunion looking smoking hot, said guy is full of astonishment that we didn’t date in high school. History rewritten.
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8 years ago
10 comments:
....except that, the way I read it, you get to be the one who makes the move, mainly through bluntness, but when someone else makes a move on you, you get to be offended because you "didn't give the signals". Did the guys you made a move on give any signals? If the answer isn't "always", then why do you get to be pissed off if someone makes a move on you, whether it be through bluntness, clumsiness or whatever?
Flirting and signals are different for everybody. I've had many experiences where I've just had to break through with a big clumsy pass, because the person I admire is shy, or conflicted, or has personal space issues, or whatever. And it has worked for me. And it has also backfired as well. That's life, but if we go around "keeping our feelings to ourselves" (a reference to your May 31, 2009 entry), then how do we get anywhere in establishing relationships?
Unfortunately, unless someone releases the manifesto sometime soon, there are no consistent guidelines and rules about dating, sex and forming relationships. We all just stumble through, and deal with the failures as much as we get excited about the breakthroughs. (And sure, if you say no, it means no, and the other friend shouldn't be persistent with trying to kiss you.) But, unless you want to wear a T-shirt proclaiming your mantra "If I wanted you, you would know it", then you've got to take the passes at you without getting pissed off about it.
That's a fair point. What's not in the blog posts is that in these cases the people in question hit on me after a couple of years of friendship. I don't routinely get offended about people hitting on me. I quite like it. As long we’re clear that making a rude comment about my looks on the street is not hitting on me, but acting like a jackass. But the rule has to be to do it up front. If I'm just getting to know someone and he hits on me, then it's not a big deal. I can turn him down, and we can proceed as friends (or not as the case may be).
By waiting, it becomes a big deal. And no guy has successfully presented it as not a big deal. If he had, different story. Now it's AWKWARD. Now the guy is risking losing a close friend, so it must mean his feelings are serious. Now I'm in the position of rejecting someone I care about, which is completely awful. Because I can't say something facile or glib. The guy knows me too well at that point. Now I'm accused of leading them on because I had the audacity to get comfortable with them because we were well past the point when any reasonable person lets the other person know they're interested romantically. Then I have to stop being comfortable with them because being comfortable with them makes them think I’m interested. And why would I want to hang out with someone I’m not comfortable with?
To your final point, I feel like my entire personality is a “T-shirt proclaiming [my] mantra ‘If I wanted you, you would know it’.” Not so, according to the evidence. Surprising nonetheless.
“But the rule has to be to do it up front.” And I guess that’s where we differ on opinion in this topic. I have an example in my personal experiences of where a woman and I met at university, hung around the same social groups, I started tutoring her sister, we became friends, and then we hedged around that friendship for years, both being attracted to each other but neither being brave enough to broach the next level (proximity and frequency of contact was also an issue for a while, as I worked somewhere that was a two hour drive from the city we met in). I eventually made a move, and it worked. (It didn’t last, but we’re not talking here about creating a lasting relationship, just broaching the start of one).
Long story short, there are people (me included) that may take time to make that move. Others may take time to realize that they want more from a good friend (it’s a common cliché in books, TV and movies, but it does happen). So our difference is that I don’t believe in the concept of a “window of opportunity”.
Then again, I’m happy to talk about things if I make a move on a friend or vice versa (I have been in both situations, and at least one case in each where it hasn’t worked). I don’t know these guys who become your friends and then make a move, but maybe they’ve all just been bad examples or experiences. It is awkward, it is risky, it is awful. My belief is in trying to at least sort it out through talking (unless neither person was that emotionally invested in the prospect, in which case, sure, move on). If that doesn’t work, then the friendship is over, and both parties deal with the emotional flotsam in some other way. (And being accused of something like “leading them on” is a pretty surefire sing that the accuser isn’t mature enough to own their personal feelings and actions, which would generally mean a friendship disintegration in my book.) If it does work, the friendship is re-defined, either explicitly or implicitly, and forward they go.
To the final point: as someone who knows you but mostly from the other side of the world, neither our face-to-face interactions, nor my reading of your blog, indicated to me that the T-shirt was your personality type. For whatever that information nugget is worth.
Ok, but I put a caveat to that rule. Which is, if it's not up front then you have to make it not a big deal. I had a friend who wasn't sure if someone she had known for a while was interested. I counseled her to take a shot, but in the most innocuous way possible, clearly stating it was not a big thing.
I write a blog where I've printed out the text of an actual breakup and a failed sexual encounter. How do I come across as someone who's uncomfortable putting anything out there? I can't do anything with your information without knowing what I'm doing that's giving that impression. I'm honestly stumped.
I’ll ponder that caveat a bit, but my initial reaction is that taking a shot is always a big deal. Or, at the very least, not a small thing. But that may be just me. (I remember my mother one making an observation about both my youngest brother and I, that when either of us fall for someone, we fall hard. Neither of us have the “casual” gene when it comes to intimacy. I’m not convinced of the 100% truth of that, but there’s something there.) Still, I stand by the opinion that a big deal can be only short term, and communication after the move can turn it into something less dramatic (I have had experience of that).
If you mean that the act of putting your experiences in a blog means you put it out there, then I would say that, given it is anonymous, it didn’t really count in my mind (unless the blog is passed on to all your friends, including these males, and you identify yourself as the author, which I don’t know either way). If, however, you mean the actual content of the blog is the giveaway, then I will have to re-read it and get back to you (feel free to point me to any entries you are directly referring to, as it is a large number of pages to scrawl through).
Ooh, I knew you would call me out on the anonymity. It's to protect the guys. I tell everyone I know about the blog, even a couple of the guys I've dated and mentioned in it. But generally, I'm not at all shy, and I'm ridiculously flirtatious. Which, ok, can be misleading at times. I am not some shy wallflower who doesn't know how to land a guy. Now that I think about it, this whole blog is about my ability to land a guy. Huh.
You can fall hard. You just have to pretend it's no big deal to the other person. Otherwise, you've just dumped out your heart in their hands and that's an unfair amount of responsibility to give to someone. In my experience, you do that and the relationship never recovers. Maybe it would be impossible anyway.
OK, well that makes sense, and if a guy friend hits on you after reading the blog, then he has to know what to expect and either accept the friendship dissolve or try to counter or soften it with the knowledge he has.
“You shouldn’t dump your heart into someone else’s hands” - agreed. “Pretend it’s not a big deal” – I can’t really go with that one. Mainly because, in my head, rightly or wrongly, that means an automatic devaluing of the friendship, through deception. I usually go with: (a.) ask to see if a conversation can take place. If not, then deal with it myself, otherwise (b.) prior to the conversation, stress that my feelings are mine and mine alone, and no-one else should feel the duty to take them on board. It’s still not easy, and it’s a clumsy balance between “heart-dumping” and “no big deal” but, given my annoying need for closure, it’s what I have to go with. (Unless I can get laid immediately afterwards, and just fuck my depression away. But that seems harder to do as I get older (and I was never really good at it anyway….))
(That last bracket was supposed to come across more ironically than it did. I was NEVER any good at that!)
(Given a lack of success in directly communication regarding these topics, I am resorting to responding here.)
Misleading statement: “I had never flirted with him. I had never inadvertently touched him. I had never sat next to him when there was room to sit farther away.”
There were a couple of instances where a combination of proximity and actions gave signals that can quite easily be described as flirtatious. I am not disputing the assertion that they were not intentional, but to argue that you were100% non-physical and clearly platonic are misleading.
And this leads to the answers to why “it’s you” but you don’t want to hear them, you’d rather just chastise and insult.
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